Zitat:...
Iran and the Turko-Persian Tradition

History. Central Asia and the Transcaucasus have for a thousand years been included in the "Persianate zone," a large cultural area marked

by the use of the New Persian language as a medium of administration and literature, by the rise of Persianized Turks to administrative control, by a new political importance for the 'ulama [Islam's rabbis], and by the development of an ethnically composite Islamicate society.
The Southern Tier had for millennia participated integrally in the development of Iranian culture. The Shahnameh, Iran's national epic, takes place mostly on what later became Soviet territory; the region's cities have a larger presence in the classics of Persian poetry than do those of Iran proper. Bukhara and Marv are two of the oldest and most important cities of Iranian civilization. Samarkand boasts the Gur Emir, Tamerlane's tomb, as well as many other great Islamic structures. Tashkent hosts ancient schools. Medieval figures such as the philosophers Alfarabi and Avicenna, the geographer Albiruni, the poet Ali Sher Navai, and the astronomer Ulugh Beg all lived in what we term the Southern Tier.
The Turko-Persian tradition developed in the Seljuk period (1040-1118) and reached its fullest florescence in the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries, when it prevailed in an area stretching from Anatolia to southern India, from Iraq to Sinkiang. The Ottoman, Safavid, Chagatay, and Mughal empires all subscribed to this civilization. Their prestige caused it to spread even beyond their boundaries, for example, to Hyderabad in southern India. The Turko-Persian tradition declined in the eighteenth century, when Europeans began to encroach and land trade declined. Still, Persian remained the language of culture in the Central Asian cities until the Russian Revolution.

Islam set the parameters in the Persianate zone, Turcophones ruled, and Iranians administered. As this implies, each of the three classical languages of Islam had a distinct function: Arabic belonged to religion; Turkish to the military; and Persian to administration, polite society , and the arts. In short, the Turko-Persian tradition featured Persian culture patronized by Turcophone rulers. This mix led to unlikely juxtapositions: for example, shortly after 1500, the Iranian ruler Shah Isma'il wrote poetry in Azeri Turkic (under the pen name Khata'i ) while his Ottoman counterpart in Istanbul wrote poetry in Persian.

The elites had much in common, from education to home life to styles of dress. But that was not all, as Robert L. Canfield of Washington University in St. Louis explains:

People on many levels of the society had similar notions about the ground-rules of cooperation and dispute, and in other ways shared a number of common institutions, arts, knowledge, customs, and rituals. These similarities of cultural style were perpetuated by poets, artists, architects, artisans, jurists, and scholars, who maintained relations among their peers in the far-flung cities of the Turko-Persian Islamicate ecumene, from Istanbul to Delhi.
Today. The Southern Tier's connections to Iran would seem to be moribund, overtaken by the delimitation of nation-states, Russian colonization, the Soviet experiment, and the Islamic Republic. But they are not: on both sides of the old Soviet border with Iran, the Turko-Persian tradition lives on.
On the northern side, the Turko-Persian tradition remained a source of pride and hope through seven decades of Soviet rule. In 1967 Olaf Caroe, the British administrator and author, explained that "it would be a profound mistake to imagine that the Sovietization of Central Asia and its populations has wiped clean the earlier drawings on the slate." In 1990 Graham Fuller reiterated the point: "the Persian legacy still runs deep in those republics, profoundly shaping their basic culture." Ex-Soviet Muslims have various connections to Iran. Tajiks share with it ethnic and linguistic bonds; Azeris share the Twelver Shi'i religious tradition; Armenians look to it for a potential balance to the Turcophones ; and the whole region celebrates Nowruz (the Iranian New Year's festival in March ). Much else-music, cuisine, crafts-is also similar. Today, dispirited by the devastation about them, many ex-Soviet Muslims see Persianate culture and Iran as sources of hope. Symbolic of this, the Tajiks have replaced a statue of Lenin with one of the poet Ferdousi, author of the Shahnameh. Turkmenistanis considered changing their currency unit to the dinar or tuman , though they eventually settled on the manat. Turkmenistan's President Saparmurad Niyazov told the foreign minister of Iran that he was "personally interested" in learning Persian and would facilitate its teaching in his country. On a visit to Iran, Kazakhstan's Minister of Culture Yerkegeliy Rahkmadiyev referred to the two countries' thousand-year relations and declared, "We consider Iran as our own home."

While today's republics have won a utilitarian acceptance, the old khanates of Bukhara, Khiva, and Kokand live on in the imagination. The Great Ariana Society in Tajikistan advocates a Greater Khurasan, which would incorporate a Persian-speaking belt from the far end of Afghanistan to the Persian Gulf. Graham Fuller speculates that such a unit could become a counterpoise against a Turcophone belt to the north.

On the Iranian side, too, the Turko-Persian tradition survives. Government officials are generally cautious in their public statements, disclaiming interest in political influence, seeking only a softer kind. According to Foreign Minister 'Ali Akbar Velayati, "the export of revolution means the export of culture and ideas, no more." As a sign of the kind of influence Iranians hope to have, Velayati himself delivered a lecture at the Turkmen Academy of Sciences on the poet and thinker Mahdum Kuli. President Hashemi-Rafsanjani contented himself with bland statements. "The newly independent countries to the north are very dear to us," he declared in late 1992.

Still, indelicate expressions-betraying Iranians' excitement-sometimes get articulated. Velayati spoke of Central Asia's "Iranian identity" and noted that it is impossible to look at the region "without making reference to Iranian culture and to the Iranian language." The religious leader of Isfahan, Ayatollah Taheri, held that "some of the newly independent republics of the former Soviet Union do not agree to the ignominious Turkmanchai Treaty between Iran and the former Soviet Union [actually Russia] and consider themselves part of Iran and regard the esteemed leader [Khamene'i] as their own leader." An Iranian journalist explains this impulse: "In our heart of hearts, we know that Azerbaijan and Turkmenia [Central Asia] were once part of the Persian empire." Some Iranians explicitly say as much; Sarhadizadeh, a former minister of labor, predicted that independent Azerbaijan would eventually "become part of Iran." The prayer leader of Mashhad echoed, "The Treaty of Turkmanchay expired several years ago, and these countries are now parts of Iran."

Interestingly, Iran's political "moderates" articulate these dangerous dreams more than its "radicals." That's because the radicals have only Islamic aspirations, while the moderates have Persian nationalist ones as well. For the latter, Shahram Chubin notes, the new states "could in theory become a new constituency or audience, widening the strategic depth of the Islamic republic and deepening its base." Powerful elements within Iran, in short, appear to want to create a sphere of influence that includes Azerbaijan and Central Asia.

In asserting their claims, these Iranians dismiss Turkey's claimed connections to Central Asia and Azerbaijan. Iran's deputy foreign minister reacted with scorn when asked about possible rivalry between Turkey and Iran in the area: "What rivalry? Turks have nothing in the area but local idioms close to Turkish. History, civilization, culture, literature, science-everything is Iranian."
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Zitat:denn die Osmanen haben nie über Zentralasien geherscht , sondern der Iran bis teilweise in die zweite Hälfte des 19.Jahrhunderts hinein , bevor Russland , diese Gebiete anschließlich eroberte.

Zitat:dass die Seldschuken die iranische Kultur annahmen und in der Adminstration und Verwaltung des Staates auch fast nur Iraner einsetzten.

Zitat:Also ,das , was ich sagen will , ist , dass Zentralasien von der Kultur und Zivilisation her iranisch ist , zu Mal iranische Feste (oder Feste , von Iranern gefeiert werden ) dort auch gefeiert werden , wie Norooz (Iranischer Neujahr).

Zitat:aber die "Turkvölker" Zentralasiens waren nie Zarathustrier

Zitat:so waren diese Turkmenen und die offizielle Amtssprache , wie auch unter allen anderen Dynastie der 2564jährigen Geschichte Irans , war die persische Sprache

Zitat:Oder , dass mehr als 2 Mio. Turkmenen in der Iranischen Provinz Khorasan an der Grenze zu Turmenistan leben , und wie gesagt diese lebten jahrtausende (Azaris) oder jahrhunderte (andere Turkvölker wie Turkmenen) schon im Iran.

Zitat:Ethnisch und von der Sprache her mag es einen Nenner geben , worauf sich die Panturkisten berufen , aber kulturell gibt es den nicht.

Zitat:Türkische Dynastien die sich im Iran etablierten waren unter anderem Choresmier, Safawiden, Kadscharen, Zand,....

Zitat:Das muss ich stark bezweifeln, die Seldschuken setzten eben keine Iraner in die Verwaltung ein, weil sie deren Loyalität nicht vertrauten und wurden nicht iranisiert wie du meintest, sondern blieben als halbnomadische Reiterverbände in kompakten Siedlungen, sprich, sie nahmen sich das beste Weideland und den Iranern gab man was übrig blieb.
Diese kulturelle Assimilation/Anlehnung war bei der Zand Dynastie gegeben, auch bei Safawiden und anderen, aber eben nicht bei den Seldschuken oder später den Mongolen.

Zitat:...
Islam set the parameters in the Persianate zone, Turcophones ruled, and IRANIANS ADMINISTERED. As this implies, each of the three classical languages of Islam had a distinct function: Arabic belonged to religion; Turkish to the military; and PERSIAN to ADMINISTRATION, polite society , and the arts
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Zitat:aber diese haben im NATIONALEN Interesse IRANS gehandelt.

Zitat:(Karim Khan Zand war ein Lure)

Zitat:Vor allem von der Safavieh zu behaupten , sie wären Türken , die Iran unterworfen haben ist kaum an Dreistigkeit zu übertreffen

Zitat:zumal Shah Esmail Safavi (Begründer der Safaviden-Dynastie) Iran wieder geeint hat und Shah Abbas der Große Irans bester Kaiser der islamischen Geschichte (Irans) war

Zitat:Die Theorie , dass Azaris die Nachkommen der Meder sein sollen , habe ich auch schon gehört , (ob sie wahr ist , dass weiß niemand

Zitat:.immerhin sind sie Schiitengenauso wie die Iraner und haben auch viel für Iran geleistet)

Zitat:Islam set the parameters in the Persianate zone, Turcophones ruled, and IRANIANS ADMINISTERED. As this implies, each of the three classical languages of Islam had a distinct function: Arabic belonged to religion; Turkish to the military; and PERSIAN to ADMINISTRATION, polite society , and the arts

Zitat:Diese Theorie geistert nur in den Köpfen der Iraner rum, glaub mir, wenn du einem Ethnologen die Geschichte von den 'arischen Azeris' erzählst, lacht er dich aus. Sprache und Ethnie gehen in den meisten Fällen Hand in Hand - und wenn die Azeris nun mal einen türkischen Dialekt sprechen, dann liegt ja der Gedanke am nächsten, dass sie ethnische Türken sind, nicht wahr

Zitat:Wieso war Karim Khan Zand ein Lure, während alle anderen Azeri und Turkmenen waren? Leuchtet mir nicht ein

Zitat:Die Aserbaidschaner (Eigenbezeichnung: Azäri) sind ein Turkvolk des Kaukasusgebietes. Ferner leben Angehörige des aserbaidschanischen Volkes in weiten Teilen der GUS und des Iran (dort vor allem in der Landschaft "Südaserbaidschan"), der östlichen Türkei, in Dagestan und Georgien. Aber auch in Armenien, dem Irak und Syrien leben Angehörige dieses Turkvolkes. Diese Volksgruppe galt als turkotatarisch und wurde einst als Berg-Türken, Berg-Tataren oder Kaukasus-Tataren bezeichnet.

Zitat:Azerbaijanis
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Azerbaijanis, or "Azerbaijani Turks," are a Muslim people who number 12 to 21 million worldwide who live in the Republic of Azerbaijan and northwestern Iran. They also have sizeable communities in Turkey, Georgia Russia, USA, Canada, and Germany.

The Azerbaijanis are primaraly the descendants of Iranian Medes and ancient Sumerians. The last historical viewpoint is still very discussible. They speak in Turkic Azeri. Azeri language and Sumerian language (which is linguisically isolated) are not related.


Iranian origins
Most western and Azerbaijani historians consider the nation of Azerbaijani Turks the inheritants of ancient Iranian Medes.

They are also some other minor theories propagated by certain Pan-Turkist groups who regard them as descendants of various bodies of Turks, Scythians (Ishkuz), Cimmerians, Huns, Gokturks, Khazars, Barsils, Kurtugurs, Saragurs, Kipchaks and others.

Most of the character of Azerbaijan and the Azerbaijanis comes from their Iranian heritage.

...
According to the 1911 encyclopedia "the people of the Mada (Mata), the Medes, appear in history first in 836 B.C., when the Assyrian conqueror Shalmaneser II in his wars against the tribes of the Zagros received the tribute of the Amadai ....Herodotus gives a list of six Median tribes among them the Paraetaceni....names in the Assyrian inscriptions prove that the tribes in the Zagros and the northern parts of Media (Azerbaijan) were Iranian,
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Zitat:Ethnisch und von der Sprache her mag es einen Nenner geben , worauf sich die Panturkisten berufen , aber kulturell gibt es den nicht.

Zitat:Wer mit soviel Verbundenheit zu diesem Staat steht, den kann man vielleicht schon als Iraner bezeichnen – ok.

Zitat:[Zur Erinnerung, das EU Mitgliedsland Griechenland weigerte sich bis vor ein paar Jahren immer noch, die in
West Thrazien lebende Türkische Minderheit als Türken anzuerkennen und bezeichnete sie daher offiziell
als muslimische Minderheit.:bonk:]

Zitat:ol aber slawische Griechen gibt es oder wie?
Türkisch wurde den Azaris aufgezwungen (das heutige Azarbaijan hieß auch schon vor der Türkisierung Azarabadgan.
Z.B. sprechen die Afroamerikaner auch englisch.
Sind sie nun angelsächsisch??

Zitat:Hä??
Die Zand-Dynastie überhaupt war lurisch-persisch , zumal sie aus der Provinz FARS kamen und die Hauptstadt von Mashhad nach Shiraz verlegten.